In Conversation with Lenard Giller and Maria Toumazou

Words by

Robert Frost

In Conversation with Lenard Giller and Maria Toumazou

The following conversation between Lenard Giller and Maria Toumazou, moderated by Robert Frost, took place between May 3 and June 14, 2024, in conjunction with the exhibition Detour is method at Bar Civil, Düsseldorf, Germany. In reproducing an artwork described in Diary of an Oxygen Thief, written by Anonymous, Giller and Toumazou engage with notions of authorship and collaboration as a means to subvert or extend established understandings: through a kind of material rebirth the novel becomes enacted and at the same time wilfully dismantled, undone, “departed from.”

     When the big night of Aisling’s exhibition arrived and I was very nervous. I was going to meet her friends. In my mind I’m still her boyfriend. We’re just going through a bumpy patch. I mean, I didn’t feel too confident about it. I had a nasty feeling that I would discover some stuff I wouldn’t like. I got there and the event was already up and running. I pushed my way through the impressive crowd of fashionable, comfortable-looking people. People who appeared as if they were used to being loved (strange thing to say, but that’s how they looked to me: the sought-after). So I tried to find her and couldn’t at first. But I could see the huge photo collage on the back wall of the bar.

     That’s all it was. A big bar with a big wall space at the back. An overall abstract impression composed of hundreds of black and white photos of subway workers and commuters. To me, it was reminiscent of photographers from the 1920s or 1930s. A Russian Man Ray or John Heartfield, visually clever in the way she made the present day appear so retro.

     I was shocked that I liked it so much and pissed off. It meant she was more talented than I’d feared. Not only had

—Anonymous, Diary of an Oxygen Thief, p. 124

Lenard Giller, Maria Toumazou, 'Versions from “Diary of an Oxygen Thief” by Anonymous', 2024. Black and white photographs, dimensions & arrangements variable

Maria Toumazou: I was checking my mail on the phone these last few days, and hadn’t seen that your message had gone into spam till just now. So sorry for the delay, I was checking quite regularly expecting your email.

I had this work in mind for a long time. To reproduce an artwork described in this book Diary of an Oxygen Thief by Anonymous. There’s a tension with authorship already from its very context, but another layer to it could be to make it happen collaboratively. That we both contribute photos for it but that again it’s produced there in order to minimise shipping costs and time that’s a bit tight for me. I can imagine that if we make this happen it would be quite a busy piece so I suggest we find a more secluded wall for it that not so many other artworks are visible when looking at it.

Lenard Giller: There is one large wall directly behind the “Bar,” where I could see this work existing really well.

Maria: Sending you the title for the 2 pieces, and the first idea for the collaboration. Still not sure, but wanted to start from this straightforward one as an option.

Lenard Giller, Maria Toumazou

from “Diary of an Oxygen Thief” by Anonymous

Maria Toumazou, 'Replica’s replica', 2023. Modified plastic plotter roll holders, tape, 8 × 18 × 31 cm

Lenard Giller, Untitled, 2024. Digital video transferred from 16mm film, color, silent, loop of 55sec.

Lenard: Maybe we could also think about placing one word in front of “from.” In order to suggest that this methodology/collaboration can be extended. Maybe something like:

Exchanges from “Diary of an Oxygen Thief” by Anonymous

Memories from “Diary of an Oxygen Thief” by Anonymous

Developments from “Diary of an Oxygen Thief” by Anonymous

Methods from “Diary of an Oxygen Thief” by Anonymous

Versions from “Diary of an Oxygen Thief” by Anonymous

Lenard: In the evening we sat down and he started trimming his fingernails. I really liked this intimate moment of self-preservation, the relationship between the cut and cinema, and the idea of our hair and nails being alternative measurements of time.

Lenard Giller

Untitled, 2024

Digital video transferred from 16mm film, colour, silent, loop of 55sec.

Maria Toumazou, Graduals, 2022-2024. Found (graduated) neutral-density photo filters, stained plywood, microphone stands, lights, wiring. Dimensions variable. Courtesy of Grazer Kunstverein and Hot Wheels Athens London

Maria Toumazou, Graduals, 2022-2024. Found (graduated) neutral-density photo filters, stained plywood, microphone stands, lights, wiring. Dimensions variable. Courtesy of Grazer Kunstverein and Hot Wheels Athens London

Maria: I agree with adding a word/phrase before the title. Leaning towards Versions. I’m still a little sceptical about going away from the scale described in the piece. I feel like maybe it’s nice to retain the structure and change up the content–but I also trust you, maybe I’m being too dogmatic. Some edits for the 2nd title I sent you yesterday, please save this as the last version!:

Maria Toumazou

Graduals, 2022-2024

Found (graduated) neutral-density photo filters, stained plywood, microphone stands, lights, wiring

Dimensions variable

Courtesy of Grazer Kunstverein and Hot Wheels Athens London

Maria: These are so beautiful! Are you including photos from both Rome and Düsseldorf?!

Lenard Giller (b. 1997) looks at the relationship between reality and its translation and representation through time-based technologies. Spanning film, sound, sculptural elements and installation, Giller’s practice unpacks the material, structural and underlying emotional components that condition perception. Upcoming and recent exhibitions include MACRO — Museum of Contemporary Art of Rome, Rome, Italy (2024); Bar Civil, Düsseldorf, Germany (2024); Casa di Goethe Museum, Rome, Italy (2024); Sweetwater, Berlin, Germany (2024); Akwa Ibom, Athens, Greece (2023); The Shop, Sadie Coles HQ, London (2023); ERMES ERMES, Rome, Italy (2023); Chess Club, Hamburg (2023); Petrine, Paris, France (2022); and Galerie Noah Klink, Berlin, Germany (2022).

Maria Toumazou (b. 1989) lives and works in Nicosia, Cyprus. Recent solo and duo shows include: Bar Civil, Düsseldorf, Germany (2024); Hot Wheels Athens London hosting Maxwell Graham, London (2024); Grazer Kunstverein, Graz (2022); Point Centre for Contemporary Art at Moufflon Bookshop, Nicosia (2022); and Thkio Ppalies, Nicosia, (2018). Toumazou’s work was also included in phenomenon 5, Anafi (2024); Biennale für Freiburg 2, curated by Paula Kommoss, Freiburg (2023); Jacqueline, Athens (2023); Nassauischer Kunstverein Wiesbaden, curated by Tom Engels, Wiesbaden (2021); NiMAC, curated by Marina Christodoulidou, Nicosia (2019); and the Cyprus Pavilion at Biennale Arte, curated  by Jan Verwoert, Venice (2017) with Neoterismoi Toumazou.

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Image selection taken from: Lenard Giller, Maria Toumazou Versions from “Diary of an Oxygen Thief” by Anonymous, 2024. Black and white photographs, dimensions & arrangements variable